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This topic contains 50 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  entspeak 9 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)
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  • #947

    Butcher
    Moderator

    Ok I think I have to explain somethings now. First off all this is a Game. You can not recognize anybody by his Face, Skin, Suit or whatever. Even if we would implement something like a Dress-Code (what we never will do) you can not be sure if this Guy is just a Freshspawn looking for “Dress Coded” Stuff or not. You will never know who this Guy is standing in front of you and thats the interessting thing in my Opinion. About the Mask Rule: We just had to implement something to make sure that KOS will be not that Problem like in Public Servers, if we had´nt this Forum Post would just go about “What kind of RP Server is this, I just got KOS at Elektro the 6th time.” I know its not realistic but its also not realistic to run full Sprint around the Map for 30 minutes like, i think, most of you do, it is not realistic everyone know how to handle Weapons, some of your Charakters never used one before the outbreak.
    We, and I mean every Player on the Server, every Admin, every “Survivor” out there can just try to play this game as realsitic as he can. Of course we can just take out all Rules on the Server, we can just say “KOS if you want to do, your Charakter could have a reason to do that”. But you all know what will happen then. This Server will turn into a Deathmatch Server in about 2 Moths because it just need 1 to mess things up. It was maybe that one Guy who killed another one at the Firestation in Cherno just some Days after DayZ-Mod was released and see what´s going on now on Public.
    For sure, we are trying realy Hard to get Ideas for Rules to implement that will not break your RP Immersion but it is just hard to find the balance.
    Indeed, today I just talked with Hrki about to delete the Mask Rule for about 1 Week to see what happens, maybe, if Kassander and Krueger agree with that, we will do it and maybe it will work for a while but with growing “Active Players” on the Server, it will only take some time the Deathmatch will be there.

    #948

    Fl0rean
    Participant

    I would allow people to KOS.

    Roleplay can only be achieved by interaction. It makes DayZ a lot more thrilling and allows players to play out their characters. But if people immediately get shot, there won’t be any interaction and so there won’t be any roleplay and character development etc. etc.

    But people KOS in DayZ as we know. So that is why this server needs rules, which must focus on player interaction. How can this be done? Definitely not by trusting in people who made a nice application, because if you see anybody who has nice gear and you have the opportunity to kill him, almost everybody would probably take the opportunity and kill that guy. Roleplay cannot evolve like that.

    So there would be different opportunities to reduce the well-known KOS mentality in DAYZ:

    1. Everybody may KOS
    Traditional DayZ. Poor interaction -> poor roleplay

    In my opinion no solution for this problem.

    2. The mask rule
    This rule allows actually every Player to KOS. They can actually put on a mask whenever they want. And also it would lead to very complicated situation like:

    What am I supposed to do, if i meet a group where just one guy has a mask and he opens fire one me? Am I allowed to shoot the other guys of the group, or not? (actually happend to me)
    How do the admin want to make sure everybody keeps the rules?
    (those issues were probably discussed already anyway)

    So what can be done?
    Nothing that I could think of. The reason for that is, because everybody could just put on a mask whenever they want. That makes this rule inefficient.

    3. People MUST make contact before they open fire on anybody.
    -> This rule would force people to interact and to roleplay.
    Imagine two groups are encountering and of course they do not trust each other. But before they just open fire on each other, they would have to interact and maybe somebody would even drop his weapon and this will lead to a very thrilling roleplay interrogating, where nobody knows who they can trust and so on…

    This rule is good because: It would lead to more roleplay
    It is bad because: People feel safe because everybody has to make contact first anyway and they will just sprint from cherno to elektro no matter what, and it wont be as thrilling at the airfield anymore because nobody can’t be KOSed anyway

    -> So what can be done if this rule would be implemented: You could make specific areas KOS-areas, mostly those with military loot. Or also bandits who claim territory can decide weather their territory is a KOS area or not (of course claimed territory should be reduced to one city or so for every group)

    My thoughts about this 😉

    #950

    Valentino
    Participant

    ^ Agree with this, masks put people in the mind set of KoS, making people just roleplay works.

    #952

    Butcher
    Moderator

    We talked about this in creating “KOS Zones” but also this can easy be abused and also will ruin Immersion.
    KOS Zones will just not change the Problem, it will make even more. People will be confused about when did they enter this Zone, are thoses Zones allowed to get camped or what happens if People just leave this Zone while they get under attack and of course, its not even realistic too.

    I just know this list like you made Fl0rean, it is the same way we work on those Rules too 😀

    #953

    entspeak
    Participant

    Ultimately, the effectiveness of having no rule against KoS depends entirely on who is allowed to play on the server.

    While it is absolutely realistic to have crazy people hellbent on killing anyone they see, this simply doesn’t make for a good roleplay environment. It may make for an interesting event, but not for general gameplay. While it may seem reasonable to say, I want that guys gear – easiest for me to just kill him from a distance and take it, this also doesn’t make for good roleplay.

    In roleplay scenarios, there will – and should – always be artificial limitations in place in order to facilitate a good roleplaying environment.

    If you don’t have these limitations in place, human gaming nature will rule and that tends to be the “take the path of least resistance route” which involves bypassing the challenges of roleplay in favor of the easy grab of gear and loot… or the easy gratification of getting a kill.
    That’s the kind of thing that should be avoided on a roleplay server.

    The problem arises when people abuse the system and try to work around the rules – people clearly not interested in the challenge of roleplaying… The situations cited above are examples of that. Which goes back to my first point: the success of a roleplay server is wholly dependent upon who you let play on it.

    #954

    entspeak
    Participant

    The notion that requiring first contact diminishes the excitement is absurd. At the airfield, this simply means bandits have to coordinate. So, you can’t snipe someone from across the airfield in a roleplay server… boohoo. This doesn’t mean going to the airfield is any safer. It makes banditry a challenge. It means coordinating – especially when you do it full immersion style and use in-game chat and avoid teamspeak. That’s actually exciting! Why do people want to avoid those kinds of exciting exchanges in favor of the easy and boring KoS at the airfield?! It makes no sense to me to come across people like that on a roleplay server.

    A bandit or group of bandits with a good imagination could be a terror without the need to KoS.

    What if “first contact” meant you had to come close, but miss your first shot?

    #956

    Butcher
    Moderator

    Thats the Problem, we dont know who we let Play on the Server. Of course, we are doing the Interviews, reading the Backgroundstorys and all of them nice, different in the way they are but all of them are nice. We are talking with them about the Server, the Events and some Rules but thats it, I still dont know this Person and we never will because for example, I´m in Germany and he lives in the USA. We got so many different People on the Server and I´m happy about every one of them and till now, we only had one Time a Report about abusing Rules/RDM what makes me happy because I see all of you are no KOS People who kill for no reason with your Sniper.
    We will see what will happen, but I´m glad to know you are thinking about those Problems too.

    #960

    Fl0rean
    Participant

    I like the “making contact rule” best 😀

    At least it cant stay like it is right now and no KOS-rule is no option in my opinion

    But another thing. Will an IC-Area for ingame letters or stories open? It would be very nice in order to make a diary or to deliver a message to somebody else 😀

    #961

    Binkowski
    Participant

    Fl0rean, Making messages for people shouldn’t be in preset places – if you have something to say to someone and know where they usually are? Then that’s the place.

    #962

    Fl0rean
    Participant

    You mean I am supposed to run 2 hours across chernarus to see if somebody is online in order to tell him something?
    Sounds like a waste of time to me. But this wasn’t even my intention 😀

    Our group destroyed a group, who is called CKF (i think thats their name) at their territory but sadly there were no survivors left (they didn’t want to give up, which was very sad because this didn’t lead to much roleplay)
    After that we roleplayed that we sprayed a provocative message on the firestation at the NW-airfield. They will never know it though if I won’t write it into the forums.

    So I think a sector for IC-stuff would not be a bad idea. It could lead to evolving roleplay and even to ingame interactions.

    #963

    Binkowski
    Participant

    No, use the “radio” (teamspeak) for checking in with people online. I mean if you know where people usually are and want to leave a message (in game note), then just do that. But if you wanna role play as if you sprayed a building then make an IC forum thread with OOC remarks/explanation in (( double parenthesis )) at the end. Possibly writing “IC” in the topic so ppl know it’s a IC “message” or whatever.

    #965

    entspeak
    Participant

    I can’t wait for radios to be fixed next update.

    #977

    Valentino
    Participant

    Well, the thing been saying for the past days on this thread, proved itself like I knew it would.

    First time I have died on this server.
    Logged on the server to help a friend as we were close but he was lost, so I logged on, found him and went to make our way back to where our base is, a zombie attacked us so I went to take it out with an axe and got sniped by some random person.

    My friend made a run for it but got chased down and cuffed then shot, none of these bandits had a mask, none of these bandits gained any loot as we were wearing basic clothes (For this exact reason, if we die we won’t of lost anything) and none of the bandits roleplayed or had any real interactio.

    So as said before a number of times, the mask rule is beyond pointless, if you follow the rule then you are at a disadvantage, if you don’t follow the rules, then you can just go around doing what you want without a chance to even know what happened.

    #1067

    entspeak
    Participant

    I’ve gone back and forth in my mind about this whole KoS thing. I understand the desire not to limit play styles, but roleplaying does that by its very nature and KoS is counterproductive to good roleplay. As such, it’s worth considering the idea of banning it outright. Because if you have KoS, the community pretty much has to be structured to put a limit on it; otherwise, the server goes all to hell with the inevitable chaos of KoS. KoS is easy, roleplay is hard.

    I don’t think the server should go the route of DayZ RP’s hostility rules… that’s taking it a bit far; but, I think killing should come out of roleplay. The easy way kill for gear isn’t good roleplay and shouldn’t be allowed. That should be the rule. That’s the only way to productively dispense with the Bandit/Hero/Neutral categories and the mask rule.

    I also think that, if you die, you have to create a new character. (It can be a friend/relative of the old… someone who knows where the old character’s tent is… but not where his dead body is… and they should know nothing regarding the specifics of the old character’s death unless someone informs them in-game.) I think I mention some of this above, but it’s worth re-stating.

    #1068

    Statsmakten
    Participant

    Entspeak I agree with you completely. The KoS licenses makes it all very confusing, and it is indeed counterproductive to RP. However, I can’t help but enjoy the nervous feeling knowing that you’re not safe anywhere. But for the sake of RP, maybe it has to be that way. And this Bandit/survivor/hero thing is nice in theory but it’s too complicated to work in game.

    I thought up a compromise to keep some KoS but add RP to it, and I would like to hear some opinions on it. Below are my suggestions for the rules about KoS and NLR:

    NO KILL ON SIGHT (KoS)

    You are never allowed to kill another player without first making contact. Once you have initiated you need a valid reason if you wish to kill, both RP reasons and common sense. If they don’t follow your orders you are allowed to shoot but this should always be weighed against your character traits.

    You tell them to not turn around, but they do – You can shoot
    You give them 10 seconds to drop their gun, they don’t – You can shoot
    You give them 10 seconds to reply, they remain silent – You can shoot, but is the situation threatening?
    The person is wanted dead by your group – Take hostage or execute in an epic manner!
    You ask them to drop their pants and do the wiggle, but they refuse – You can shoot, but you would be an ass. RP!

    If you are the person being initiated on, you have every right to defend yourself. However, common sense goes both ways so before popping a bullet in their heads ask yourself if you have a reason to.

    MANHUNTERS

    Manhunters are characters who’ve gone unstable during their time of isolation. Infected but not completely turned, they do not only hunt humans for the thrill. They hunt for the flesh. Playing as a manhunter you can kill people on sight.

    As a manhunter you are required to wear headgear (covering your face) at all times, and you are encouraged to wear damaged clothing. Manhunters should shy away from human contact but if you’re in close encounter you are required to RP an unstable person.

    Manhunters slots are limited, apply to an admin and also notify them if you don’t want to be one anymore (to stop being a manhunter that character obviously has to die first).

    NEW LIFE RULE (NLR)

    If you get killed by a player or in the vicinity of a player you are required to start over with a new character. All possessions of the previous character are lost and you are not allowed to loot the corpse. You also lose any conflict with other players that character may have had.

    Your new character can have connections to your previous one, which gives a valid reason to know the whereabouts of your old player camp. It could be a relative, brother, friends etc.

    If you die from a bug you may decide for yourself if you want to pretend it didn’t happen. Same goes for dying from a zombie 5 minutes after spawn and similar situations.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)

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